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	<title>Comments on: Why I Am (not telling many people I&#8217;m) an Atheist</title>
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	<link>http://www.kevinmarshallonline.com/blog/2010/06/16/atheist/</link>
	<description>Musing &#38; misadventures of a writer, comedian, and local treasure</description>
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		<title>By: Victoria Roth</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmarshallonline.com/blog/2010/06/16/atheist/#comment-1676</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Victoria Roth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 18:59:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.timesunion.com/marshall/?p=983#comment-1676</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ok, I know it&#039;s pretty late to continue commenting here, but I found this funny and it reminded me of some of the conversations that went on here.
http://xkcd.com/774/#]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, I know it&#8217;s pretty late to continue commenting here, but I found this funny and it reminded me of some of the conversations that went on here.<br />
<a href="http://xkcd.com/774/#" rel="nofollow">http://xkcd.com/774/#</a></p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Marshall</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmarshallonline.com/blog/2010/06/16/atheist/#comment-1675</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin Marshall]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 11:07:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.timesunion.com/marshall/?p=983#comment-1675</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hey, guys, no more on this. Take it to private e-mail.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, guys, no more on this. Take it to private e-mail.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Blaise</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmarshallonline.com/blog/2010/06/16/atheist/#comment-1674</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Blaise]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 04:22:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.timesunion.com/marshall/?p=983#comment-1674</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh and Donna, I looked into the removal your membership in the meetup group just a bit.  I suspect that since your last email to the group said &quot;you&#039;ll all be relieved to hear I am so done with this conversation -- and this group .... So just f**k off and die!&quot;, the administrators simply assumed you wanted to leave the group.  I&#039;m sure they would allow you to join again if you requested it...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh and Donna, I looked into the removal your membership in the meetup group just a bit.  I suspect that since your last email to the group said &#8220;you&#8217;ll all be relieved to hear I am so done with this conversation &#8212; and this group &#8230;. So just f**k off and die!&#8221;, the administrators simply assumed you wanted to leave the group.  I&#8217;m sure they would allow you to join again if you requested it&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Blaise</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmarshallonline.com/blog/2010/06/16/atheist/#comment-1673</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Blaise]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jun 2010 14:28:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.timesunion.com/marshall/?p=983#comment-1673</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not *blaming* anyone, Donna, but you definitely have presented a one-sided view of the exchange.  You claim to be upset about free speech being denied, but you yourself are the one who joined into a reasonable discussion, where folks were expressing their personal opinions quietly and cogently, then cherry-picked out a couple of comments that you disliked, and started screaming at the top of your lungs.  I believe your very first message began with something to the effect of &quot;OMG,I can&#039;t believe the HATRED and VITRIOL in this group!&quot;  

You could as easily have addressed your perceived targets with private emails, or a single reasoned response directed only at the specific authors of those comments (we&#039;re talking about, what, three people in the group you had this nasty little catfight with?), but you chose instead to spam hundreds with dozens of angry emails full of the hatred and vitriol you claimed to decry.  

I&#039;m not saying you shouldn&#039;t have your opinions, or that you shouldn&#039;t express them, but attacking and annoying hundreds because you disagree with a couple is hardly a rational attitude.  And even assuming you were 100% correct in your arguments, making public statements about a group with hundreds of people in it based on your interactions with less than five of its members *via email* is hardly fair or reasonable, is it?  

You still haven&#039;t even met any of us, but you somehow know we&#039;re bad, bad people. And somehow WE are the ones &quot;being a**holes about it&quot;?

Come to an event or two.  Have an open mind.  Call me a a**hole *after* you get to know me, at least...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not *blaming* anyone, Donna, but you definitely have presented a one-sided view of the exchange.  You claim to be upset about free speech being denied, but you yourself are the one who joined into a reasonable discussion, where folks were expressing their personal opinions quietly and cogently, then cherry-picked out a couple of comments that you disliked, and started screaming at the top of your lungs.  I believe your very first message began with something to the effect of &#8220;OMG,I can&#8217;t believe the HATRED and VITRIOL in this group!&#8221;  </p>
<p>You could as easily have addressed your perceived targets with private emails, or a single reasoned response directed only at the specific authors of those comments (we&#8217;re talking about, what, three people in the group you had this nasty little catfight with?), but you chose instead to spam hundreds with dozens of angry emails full of the hatred and vitriol you claimed to decry.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying you shouldn&#8217;t have your opinions, or that you shouldn&#8217;t express them, but attacking and annoying hundreds because you disagree with a couple is hardly a rational attitude.  And even assuming you were 100% correct in your arguments, making public statements about a group with hundreds of people in it based on your interactions with less than five of its members *via email* is hardly fair or reasonable, is it?  </p>
<p>You still haven&#8217;t even met any of us, but you somehow know we&#8217;re bad, bad people. And somehow WE are the ones &#8220;being a**holes about it&#8221;?</p>
<p>Come to an event or two.  Have an open mind.  Call me a a**hole *after* you get to know me, at least&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Donna H</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmarshallonline.com/blog/2010/06/16/atheist/#comment-1672</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Donna H]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jun 2010 14:58:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.timesunion.com/marshall/?p=983#comment-1672</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sigh, Blaise, how exactly did I skew getting called effed up and a moron for first defending Kevin&#039;s right to speak freely (or have you forgotten that the whole e-mail chain started with an e-mail labelling him a self-hating Atheist for this blog post) and then for daring to criticize the great god Richard Dawkins&#039; messed up sense of priorities.  (I seriously want nothing to do with anyone who thinks childhood indoctrination is worse than child molestation.  Absolutely nothing.)

I was so aggravated that I was going to drop out of the group but was saved the trouble.  Someone sent an e-mail saying can we remove this moron?  Not five minutes later, with no input, no chance to defend myself, not even asked what&#039;s going on, Donna, I got an e-mail telling me I was removed.

Kevin&#039;s a big boy and he handles himself quite well.  What he does is his choice but, as for me, no, I don&#039;t think I need any involvement with people that hateful.  I don&#039;t hang out with Klan and I don&#039;t hang out with anti-theists.

For the record, I did in my last e-mail saying I was done with the nonsense invite anyone who wished to to e-mail me.  Several have (and, no, I am not going to name names, no effing way) and as I said there were several who were nice and respectful to begin with.  To them, I apologize though I really don&#039;t feel as if I&#039;m the one who should be.  I didn&#039;t cause the mess.  What seriously did I do wrong?  Disagree?

Can you really blame anyone who doesn&#039;t want to check out the group following this fiasco?  If you&#039;re that worried about members, you ought to reconsider how you treat the ones you have.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sigh, Blaise, how exactly did I skew getting called effed up and a moron for first defending Kevin&#8217;s right to speak freely (or have you forgotten that the whole e-mail chain started with an e-mail labelling him a self-hating Atheist for this blog post) and then for daring to criticize the great god Richard Dawkins&#8217; messed up sense of priorities.  (I seriously want nothing to do with anyone who thinks childhood indoctrination is worse than child molestation.  Absolutely nothing.)</p>
<p>I was so aggravated that I was going to drop out of the group but was saved the trouble.  Someone sent an e-mail saying can we remove this moron?  Not five minutes later, with no input, no chance to defend myself, not even asked what&#8217;s going on, Donna, I got an e-mail telling me I was removed.</p>
<p>Kevin&#8217;s a big boy and he handles himself quite well.  What he does is his choice but, as for me, no, I don&#8217;t think I need any involvement with people that hateful.  I don&#8217;t hang out with Klan and I don&#8217;t hang out with anti-theists.</p>
<p>For the record, I did in my last e-mail saying I was done with the nonsense invite anyone who wished to to e-mail me.  Several have (and, no, I am not going to name names, no effing way) and as I said there were several who were nice and respectful to begin with.  To them, I apologize though I really don&#8217;t feel as if I&#8217;m the one who should be.  I didn&#8217;t cause the mess.  What seriously did I do wrong?  Disagree?</p>
<p>Can you really blame anyone who doesn&#8217;t want to check out the group following this fiasco?  If you&#8217;re that worried about members, you ought to reconsider how you treat the ones you have.</p>
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		<title>By: Blaise</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmarshallonline.com/blog/2010/06/16/atheist/#comment-1671</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Blaise]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 04:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.timesunion.com/marshall/?p=983#comment-1671</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kevin, you really should keep an open mind and attend a meetup or two to decide for yourself.  Donna H has presented an unfortunately skewed view of her foray into our group, and I&#039;d hate to think anyone missed out on a real opportunity to experience something new because three or four people decided to have a catfight on an email list.

Donna, you should come too.  As I tried to point out earlier, a couple of people overreacting to misperceived attitudes in emails is hardly a reason to condemn hundreds of people, and anyway, you were hardly without blame in that exchange.  Why don&#039;t you come and meet some of us in person, before you decide to isolate yourself from a whole community of like-minded folks?

Really, we don&#039;t eat babies, I promise...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin, you really should keep an open mind and attend a meetup or two to decide for yourself.  Donna H has presented an unfortunately skewed view of her foray into our group, and I&#8217;d hate to think anyone missed out on a real opportunity to experience something new because three or four people decided to have a catfight on an email list.</p>
<p>Donna, you should come too.  As I tried to point out earlier, a couple of people overreacting to misperceived attitudes in emails is hardly a reason to condemn hundreds of people, and anyway, you were hardly without blame in that exchange.  Why don&#8217;t you come and meet some of us in person, before you decide to isolate yourself from a whole community of like-minded folks?</p>
<p>Really, we don&#8217;t eat babies, I promise&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Marshall</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmarshallonline.com/blog/2010/06/16/atheist/#comment-1670</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin Marshall]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jun 2010 02:20:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.timesunion.com/marshall/?p=983#comment-1670</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;Craig:&lt;/b&gt; That&#039;s a poor excuse. To coin a cliche, two wrongs don&#039;t make a right.

&lt;b&gt;Victoria:&lt;/b&gt; Yes. But it&#039;s not telling of how they&#039;d treat me in other contexts, since the whole point of the post is that I&#039;m NOT like those that would attack them and call them stupid. Universally, the reaction from both religious and non-religious folks has been shock at the hostility I received from other atheists.

&lt;b&gt;Ben D:&lt;/b&gt; I appreciate the offer, Ben, but I have to rescind my interest. The hostility I&#039;ve received on here, things I&#039;ve been told were said, and general tone I&#039;ve gotten from the group is not a great one. I would never participate or endorse a group that encourages such counter-productive vitriol. Besides, like I&#039;ve said before: I&#039;m an Atheist. I don&#039;t believe in God, I don&#039;t subscribe to a religion, and I have no desire to have any group - no matter what color they paint their wagon - try to indoctrinate me,]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Craig:</b> That&#8217;s a poor excuse. To coin a cliche, two wrongs don&#8217;t make a right.</p>
<p><b>Victoria:</b> Yes. But it&#8217;s not telling of how they&#8217;d treat me in other contexts, since the whole point of the post is that I&#8217;m NOT like those that would attack them and call them stupid. Universally, the reaction from both religious and non-religious folks has been shock at the hostility I received from other atheists.</p>
<p><b>Ben D:</b> I appreciate the offer, Ben, but I have to rescind my interest. The hostility I&#8217;ve received on here, things I&#8217;ve been told were said, and general tone I&#8217;ve gotten from the group is not a great one. I would never participate or endorse a group that encourages such counter-productive vitriol. Besides, like I&#8217;ve said before: I&#8217;m an Atheist. I don&#8217;t believe in God, I don&#8217;t subscribe to a religion, and I have no desire to have any group &#8211; no matter what color they paint their wagon &#8211; try to indoctrinate me,</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Dreidel</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmarshallonline.com/blog/2010/06/16/atheist/#comment-1669</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ben Dreidel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 23:34:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.timesunion.com/marshall/?p=983#comment-1669</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;It really is a shame, because I was looking forward to meeting them and exchanging some ideas. Apparently that isn’t a desirable outcome for their group. Which is really, really sad.&quot;

You could always meet up with us anyway and make up your own mind.  I disagree with most of Donna&#039;s characterizations, but there&#039;s no point arguing about it more.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It really is a shame, because I was looking forward to meeting them and exchanging some ideas. Apparently that isn’t a desirable outcome for their group. Which is really, really sad.&#8221;</p>
<p>You could always meet up with us anyway and make up your own mind.  I disagree with most of Donna&#8217;s characterizations, but there&#8217;s no point arguing about it more.</p>
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		<title>By: gunga dan</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmarshallonline.com/blog/2010/06/16/atheist/#comment-1668</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gunga dan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 21:54:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.timesunion.com/marshall/?p=983#comment-1668</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m surprised that the Times Union resident atheist blogger &quot;iknowtruthismine&quot;  hasn&#039;t weighed in yet.  Your 4th paragraph probably scared him off.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m surprised that the Times Union resident atheist blogger &#8220;iknowtruthismine&#8221;  hasn&#8217;t weighed in yet.  Your 4th paragraph probably scared him off.</p>
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		<title>By: Victoria Roth</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmarshallonline.com/blog/2010/06/16/atheist/#comment-1667</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Victoria Roth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 20:34:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.timesunion.com/marshall/?p=983#comment-1667</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Makes sense.  Have you gotten any new reactions from people you know personally since this post?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Makes sense.  Have you gotten any new reactions from people you know personally since this post?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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