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	<title>Comments on: on French nostalgia for Western cinema and zombies</title>
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	<description>Musing &#38; misadventures of a writer, comedian, and local treasure</description>
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		<title>By: - Kevin Marshall&#039;s America</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmarshallonline.com/blog/2012/02/13/on-french-nostalgia-for-western-cinema-and-zombies/#comment-9591</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[- Kevin Marshall&#039;s America]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Jul 2012 15:32:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinmarshallonline.com/blog/?p=6999#comment-9591</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] on French nostalgia for Western cinema and zombies Next Post [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] on French nostalgia for Western cinema and zombies Next Post [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: More anti-love for &#8220;The Artist&#8221; - Kevin Marshall&#039;s America &#124; Kevin Marshall&#039;s America</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmarshallonline.com/blog/2012/02/13/on-french-nostalgia-for-western-cinema-and-zombies/#comment-9387</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[More anti-love for &#8220;The Artist&#8221; - Kevin Marshall&#039;s America &#124; Kevin Marshall&#039;s America]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Feb 2012 02:11:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[[...] on French nostalgia for Western film and zombies  (function(d, s, id) { var js, fjs = d.getElementsByTagName(s)[0]; if (d.getElementById(id)) [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] on French nostalgia for Western film and zombies  (function(d, s, id) { var js, fjs = d.getElementsByTagName(s)[0]; if (d.getElementById(id)) [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: kevinmarshall</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmarshallonline.com/blog/2012/02/13/on-french-nostalgia-for-western-cinema-and-zombies/#comment-9380</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kevinmarshall]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 18:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinmarshallonline.com/blog/?p=6999#comment-9380</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s definitely an interesting cultural difference.
As Americans we do have a restriction of speech in terms of using it to incite harm; for instance, restrictions against such things including but not limited to harassment, calling for the death of another person, or yelling &quot;fire&quot; in a crowded theater (the most famous example) is allowable. But then we don&#039;t have laws like you stated that exist in many Western European nations.

The cliche about free speech is apt for summing up the American approach to it: that freedom of speech is there to protect the speech you DON&#039;T like, not what you do like. As such, we can&#039;t and won&#039;t make it against the law simply to express an idea or opinion, no matter how wrong or reprehensible. The easy dismissal of that approach is that it&#039;s based on a logical fallacy of a slippery slope. The flip side of that, though, is that allowing the restriction of speech does allow for the government to allow for the restriction of speech it simply doesn&#039;t like. Framed in one way still sounds like a slippery slope, but due to our constitutional structure, it becomes a legal reality. 

That said, there are extenuating circumstances at play that I think would allow for something like what France has in regards to Nazi imagery, support, etcetera. You can&#039;t, for instance, display a drawing of a minority being murdered across from said minority&#039;s home. That&#039;s a hate crime. So there is room and precedent for such a law. The reason we haven&#039;t passed it is because unlike France and many other countries in Europe, we weren&#039;t occupied. Our closest encounter with the war domestically was in Pearl Harbor. Had we been in France&#039;s position and German tanks had rolled into our streets and taken people out of their homes, you can guarantee stuff similar to what Le Pen was jailed for would be against the law.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s definitely an interesting cultural difference.<br />
As Americans we do have a restriction of speech in terms of using it to incite harm; for instance, restrictions against such things including but not limited to harassment, calling for the death of another person, or yelling &#8220;fire&#8221; in a crowded theater (the most famous example) is allowable. But then we don&#8217;t have laws like you stated that exist in many Western European nations.</p>
<p>The cliche about free speech is apt for summing up the American approach to it: that freedom of speech is there to protect the speech you DON&#8217;T like, not what you do like. As such, we can&#8217;t and won&#8217;t make it against the law simply to express an idea or opinion, no matter how wrong or reprehensible. The easy dismissal of that approach is that it&#8217;s based on a logical fallacy of a slippery slope. The flip side of that, though, is that allowing the restriction of speech does allow for the government to allow for the restriction of speech it simply doesn&#8217;t like. Framed in one way still sounds like a slippery slope, but due to our constitutional structure, it becomes a legal reality. </p>
<p>That said, there are extenuating circumstances at play that I think would allow for something like what France has in regards to Nazi imagery, support, etcetera. You can&#8217;t, for instance, display a drawing of a minority being murdered across from said minority&#8217;s home. That&#8217;s a hate crime. So there is room and precedent for such a law. The reason we haven&#8217;t passed it is because unlike France and many other countries in Europe, we weren&#8217;t occupied. Our closest encounter with the war domestically was in Pearl Harbor. Had we been in France&#8217;s position and German tanks had rolled into our streets and taken people out of their homes, you can guarantee stuff similar to what Le Pen was jailed for would be against the law.</p>
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		<title>By: Sébastien Barré</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmarshallonline.com/blog/2012/02/13/on-french-nostalgia-for-western-cinema-and-zombies/#comment-9378</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sébastien Barré]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 14:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinmarshallonline.com/blog/?p=6999#comment-9378</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Actually the despicable Le Pen, who used to be president of the National Front, was just sentenced to 3 months in jail with probation today for saying that the German occupation in France was &quot;not particularly inhuman&quot; (he was not saying that for &quot;comical&quot; effect, needless to say). That falls under &quot;Contesting a Crime Against Humanity&quot; in our legal system. This is no more relevant to this post, but after 10 years here, I&#039;ve to admit I lost faith in the US Freedom of Speech, I think it hurts more than it helps. Great in principle but compared to the few democratic countries I&#039;ve lived in, there isn&#039;t much here that you can&#039;t say there, AND not allowing *everything* to be said allows you to have a legal recourse when some d-bag like Le Pen opens his mouth. I don&#039;t think people like the Westboro Baptist Church should be allowed to talk for example; Freedom of Speech doesn&#039;t have to be so encompassing, so black or white, it can be a shade of gray, and I think it&#039;s obvious that this specific shade the WBC is bringing to world, could be silenced legally. But hey, Freedom of Speech is sacred here.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually the despicable Le Pen, who used to be president of the National Front, was just sentenced to 3 months in jail with probation today for saying that the German occupation in France was &#8220;not particularly inhuman&#8221; (he was not saying that for &#8220;comical&#8221; effect, needless to say). That falls under &#8220;Contesting a Crime Against Humanity&#8221; in our legal system. This is no more relevant to this post, but after 10 years here, I&#8217;ve to admit I lost faith in the US Freedom of Speech, I think it hurts more than it helps. Great in principle but compared to the few democratic countries I&#8217;ve lived in, there isn&#8217;t much here that you can&#8217;t say there, AND not allowing *everything* to be said allows you to have a legal recourse when some d-bag like Le Pen opens his mouth. I don&#8217;t think people like the Westboro Baptist Church should be allowed to talk for example; Freedom of Speech doesn&#8217;t have to be so encompassing, so black or white, it can be a shade of gray, and I think it&#8217;s obvious that this specific shade the WBC is bringing to world, could be silenced legally. But hey, Freedom of Speech is sacred here.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmarshallonline.com/blog/2012/02/13/on-french-nostalgia-for-western-cinema-and-zombies/#comment-9374</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 03:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinmarshallonline.com/blog/?p=6999#comment-9374</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, the National Front would probably have the swastika in its materials if the law allowed it. They&#039;re about as shameless as it gets with that sort of stuff.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, the National Front would probably have the swastika in its materials if the law allowed it. They&#8217;re about as shameless as it gets with that sort of stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmarshallonline.com/blog/2012/02/13/on-french-nostalgia-for-western-cinema-and-zombies/#comment-9373</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 03:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinmarshallonline.com/blog/?p=6999#comment-9373</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well right, and I acknowledge as such in the above post. But at the same time, it IS in that conversation whether that was the intent or not, so I think it bears discussing and considering. Know what I mean?

I also haven&#039;t watched a French comedy in...a long time. They usually don&#039;t work for me. Foreign comedies in general, really.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well right, and I acknowledge as such in the above post. But at the same time, it IS in that conversation whether that was the intent or not, so I think it bears discussing and considering. Know what I mean?</p>
<p>I also haven&#8217;t watched a French comedy in&#8230;a long time. They usually don&#8217;t work for me. Foreign comedies in general, really.</p>
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		<title>By: Sébastien Barré</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmarshallonline.com/blog/2012/02/13/on-french-nostalgia-for-western-cinema-and-zombies/#comment-9372</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sébastien Barré]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 21:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinmarshallonline.com/blog/?p=6999#comment-9372</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, that&#039;s exactly that, there is a big divide, and it&#039;s really a cultural and historical one. Our countries come from vastly different backgrounds in terms of segregation, slavery, colonies, etc. It&#039;s sad but true (and confusing) that what can seem blatantly racist for you guys isn&#039;t for us, and vice versa. For example, it took me a while to understand why  blackface was such a big no-no in the US (including some more explanation in that great photo show about black history at the NYS Museum right now). Blackface and its racist connotations just didn&#039;t &quot;reach&quot; us in France (a notable exception might be French chocolate maker &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banania&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Banania&lt;/a&gt;). We have other forms of racism (rooted in colonialism), I&#039;m afraid; actually I&#039;ll probably admit that Frenchland has definitely a lot of racism going on, we do have an official, extreme right-wing party that people vote for, and they are openly racist (well, not openly enough to be in legal trouble). Then again, we also have a communist party. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, that&#8217;s exactly that, there is a big divide, and it&#8217;s really a cultural and historical one. Our countries come from vastly different backgrounds in terms of segregation, slavery, colonies, etc. It&#8217;s sad but true (and confusing) that what can seem blatantly racist for you guys isn&#8217;t for us, and vice versa. For example, it took me a while to understand why  blackface was such a big no-no in the US (including some more explanation in that great photo show about black history at the NYS Museum right now). Blackface and its racist connotations just didn&#8217;t &#8220;reach&#8221; us in France (a notable exception might be French chocolate maker <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banania" rel="nofollow">Banania</a>). We have other forms of racism (rooted in colonialism), I&#8217;m afraid; actually I&#8217;ll probably admit that Frenchland has definitely a lot of racism going on, we do have an official, extreme right-wing party that people vote for, and they are openly racist (well, not openly enough to be in legal trouble). Then again, we also have a communist party. </p>
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		<title>By: Eric Newsom</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmarshallonline.com/blog/2012/02/13/on-french-nostalgia-for-western-cinema-and-zombies/#comment-9371</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric Newsom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 21:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinmarshallonline.com/blog/?p=6999#comment-9371</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I admittedly haven&#039;t seen The Artist yet, but I wonder how your opinions on the film had you seen Hazanavicius and Dujardin&#039;s previous films, which were pretty funny parodies of 60s spy films, better versions of Austin Powers. I feel as though The Artist probably took its makers by surprise as much as anything else. In interviews, I haven&#039;t seen where they thought they were making a Best Picture caliber film. I would call those OSS-117 films ham-fisted in a lot of ways too, but the fistedness works effectively for the sort of parody they&#039;re doing, especially in dealing with issues of race (Dujardin as the hero Hubert Bonisseur de la Bath is a colonial racist and a comedically unaware anti-Semite).

I&#039;m not sure exactly what I&#039;m saying here, except that the things you&#039;re saying about The Artist seem typical of the filmmakers, and I wonder if your reaction would be different were this not a universally celebrated, Oscar-nominated film, and it were just a French exercise in style and pastiche (which is what I imagine they set out to make).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I admittedly haven&#8217;t seen The Artist yet, but I wonder how your opinions on the film had you seen Hazanavicius and Dujardin&#8217;s previous films, which were pretty funny parodies of 60s spy films, better versions of Austin Powers. I feel as though The Artist probably took its makers by surprise as much as anything else. In interviews, I haven&#8217;t seen where they thought they were making a Best Picture caliber film. I would call those OSS-117 films ham-fisted in a lot of ways too, but the fistedness works effectively for the sort of parody they&#8217;re doing, especially in dealing with issues of race (Dujardin as the hero Hubert Bonisseur de la Bath is a colonial racist and a comedically unaware anti-Semite).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure exactly what I&#8217;m saying here, except that the things you&#8217;re saying about The Artist seem typical of the filmmakers, and I wonder if your reaction would be different were this not a universally celebrated, Oscar-nominated film, and it were just a French exercise in style and pastiche (which is what I imagine they set out to make).</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmarshallonline.com/blog/2012/02/13/on-french-nostalgia-for-western-cinema-and-zombies/#comment-9369</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 21:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinmarshallonline.com/blog/?p=6999#comment-9369</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I TOTES WAS! U MAD?!

Nah, it&#039;s rooted in some real criticism over the last couple decades, including but not limited to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2012/01/is-the-blockbuster-french-film-intouchables-racist-some-think-so/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;recent concerns about the hit Intouchables&lt;/a&gt;, the embargo &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.afrik-news.com/article13542.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;on black VO actors performing white characters&lt;/a&gt;, the way they portray Africans in &quot;The Triplets of Belleville&quot; and &quot;Asterix and Obelix,&quot; etcetera and so on.

It wasn&#039;t meant as a dig really on the French being racist so much as that there&#039;s what is perceived to be a real gap between American/British cinema and the French and others as it pertains to the portrayal of race, stereotypes, and the employment of racist caricatures. Ditto with Australia.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I TOTES WAS! U MAD?!</p>
<p>Nah, it&#8217;s rooted in some real criticism over the last couple decades, including but not limited to <a href="http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2012/01/is-the-blockbuster-french-film-intouchables-racist-some-think-so/" rel="nofollow">recent concerns about the hit Intouchables</a>, the embargo <a href="http://www.afrik-news.com/article13542.html" rel="nofollow">on black VO actors performing white characters</a>, the way they portray Africans in &#8220;The Triplets of Belleville&#8221; and &#8220;Asterix and Obelix,&#8221; etcetera and so on.</p>
<p>It wasn&#8217;t meant as a dig really on the French being racist so much as that there&#8217;s what is perceived to be a real gap between American/British cinema and the French and others as it pertains to the portrayal of race, stereotypes, and the employment of racist caricatures. Ditto with Australia.</p>
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		<title>By: Sébastien Barré</title>
		<link>http://www.kevinmarshallonline.com/blog/2012/02/13/on-french-nostalgia-for-western-cinema-and-zombies/#comment-9368</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sébastien Barré]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 21:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kevinmarshallonline.com/blog/?p=6999#comment-9368</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Not to mention the troubling racial aspect, but that’s a whole other can of worms and hardly surprising with a French director.&quot;

Oh come on now, you are baiting me here...
So, may I say: WOOT?! ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Not to mention the troubling racial aspect, but that’s a whole other can of worms and hardly surprising with a French director.&#8221;</p>
<p>Oh come on now, you are baiting me here&#8230;<br />
So, may I say: WOOT?! </p>
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