Kevin Marshall's America
If you haven’t already, read my open letter to Sheldon Silver and the New York State Assembly.
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On Monday the New York State Senate passed a bill to legalize Mixed Martial Arts, but it was not without its critics. One of them was Senator Liz Krueger of New York County. She was the only one who actually spoke during debate in opposition of the bill, and as such I’ve decided to take some of her concerns and discuss them.
Mind you, I’m not trying to be unfair to Senator Krueger, but I do want to make clear some important points regarding the criticisms she levied against the sport, particularly since they are not just reflective of Senator Kreuger’s opinion but also of other opponents of the measure in the Capitol, particularly those in the Assembly who could see a vote in the last days of their session.
What follows are her main points of contention and my comments. For the sake of not making this into an opus, I’m going to focus specifically on her comments starting at the 5:54 mark of the above video.
1. MMA requires participants to do the most damage possible.
- MMA judging is actually based on four criteria: clean strikes, effective grappling, octagon control, and aggressiveness. “Clean strikes” refers to contact rather than a measurement of force. Effective grappling is wrestling and submissions. Aggressiveness refers to dictating the overall pace of the fight. Actual physical damage is NOT a criteria for judging. Fighters can and do win decisions who have received more visible “damage” because they excelled all areas of the judging criteria.
2. Studies show that strikes on the ground are delivered with 910 Kilos of force.
- That’s if a fighter is in a dominant position, unrestrained, against an opponent who is not struggling, which never happens. Fights are stopped well before it would get to that point where a fighter is not be able to defend himself effectively and/or intelligently.
3. The media under-reports damage to fighters.
- This is a point Senator Krueger made several times, and I’m not exactly sure if she’s referring to specific claims or making an anecdotal observation. I’m also not sure if she’s talking about the mainstream media or specifically the leg of the sports media that covers MMA. I follow several MMA sites that release a full lists of medical suspensions enacted by State Athletic Commissions after a fight card. For those that aren’t aware, a medical suspension states that a fighter after a knockout, grueling fight, and/or injury sustained in a bout will have to undergo a number of days – anywhere from sixty to ninety – with no physical contact and no fighting until they are cleared by a medical professional and approved by the Athletic Commission. The disclosure of injuries is the norm in MMA coverage. As for mainstream media, if there were a way to further sensationalize the dangers of the sport, does anyone think they’d really hold back?
4. [MMA] does not have as great a rate of death and injury as boxing because it is not as popular and hasn’t been around as long.
- We are quickly approaching that juncture. There is a point, though, that we still don’t know the extent of long-term damage that can accrue from a career in MMA. On that same token, we are only now discovering the long-term effects of athletes in other sports such as football. The problem isn’t just that MMA hasn’t been around, it’s that sports as a whole haven’t been under the microscope for concussions until the last decade (and really only within the last five years).
5. “Not as many people participate in MMA as in boxing.”
- I would have agreed just a few years ago, but I’d actually be interested to see the current numbers. With the sudden spike of gyms that offer MMA training, I suspect that may not be the case anymore, at least as far as the United States is concerned.
6. “Thirteen deaths have been reported prior to the establishment of the current organizations and current guidelines.”
- What Krueger is referring to are the 13 deaths that were reported before the establishment of the Unified Rules of MMA, which were established by the New Jersey State Athletic Commission in 1997. Since then there have been three (not two as Krueger claims): one in the Ukraine in 1998 (an unsanctioned event overseas), one in Texas in 2007 and one in South Carolina in June of 2010. The latter two passed away due to brain hemorrhages. Both are tragedies, and both sadly could have been avoided if those two fighters had been competing in a State like Nevada, California, or yes even New York where there is a competent Athletic Commission with a rigid set of guidelines. Those deaths, particularly that of Kirkham in South Carolina, speaks more to the shortcomings of Texas and South Carolina’s overseeing bodies than it does the sport of MMA.
7. Boxing has a skill set to determine a winner, but in [MMA] the measurement of success of the bout is primarily knockout or submission.
- Not necessarily. Just looking at five recent UFC events – 125, 126, 127, 128, and 129 – 18 ended in a knockout or technical knockout, 10 ended in submission, and 28 ended in a decision. It should also be noted that most “knockouts” as opponents see them are, in fact, referee stoppages. It is the job of the referee to stop the fight before a fighter is rendered unconscious or put in a potentially dangerous situation. Just like in boxing there are some flash knockouts, but they are rare.
8. “Unless and until we establish what activities can and will be recognized in the ring and what protections both in contract and promotions and on behalf of fighters who some people will stand up and say they’re choosing to go into the ring…we as legislators endlessly day in and day out make tough decisions about what activities we’re going to recognize as legal or illegal and approve.”
- Her concerns are actually covered not only by promotions like the UFC, which provide health insurance and recently gave fighters insurance to protect them if they get injured in preparation for a fight, but more importantly by State Athletic Commission oversight and the very legislation she voted against.
Krueger also brings up outside the ring protection from unscrupulous promoters, such as the Ali Act passed by Congress in 2000. It’s an understandable concern but one that’s rooted in a misconception and lack of knowledge of the inherently different organizational and promotional structures of the two industries of boxing and MMA. If there ever is a time when those concerns addressed by the Ali Act appear and/or have some validity in the industry of MMA, it can be addressed. Until then it’s a moot point, not because we’re talking about boxing reform in relation to MMA, but because it’ll be neither here nor there if the sport itself isn’t legal in the first place.
If you think I’m cherry-picking, these are just the tangible points. There are other areas – such as the assertion she and other critics make that it is somehow New York State’s responsibility not to approve MMA because it has a detrimental effect on society – where there really isn’t any point in debating, because their arguments are based on intangible and unfounded moral objections. Senator Krueger in her testimony may have unintentionally provided an unfair caricature of opponents of the legalization of MMA in New York State: mistaken, misguided, and distorting what little information they do have to support claims which are dubious at best.
There’s no real reason for the Assembly not to follow the example of the Senate and overwhelmingly pass this legislation.
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If you support the legalization of MMA in New York State, contact your representative and tell them you want MMA legalized during this session! It will only take a few minutes and could make all the difference.
- Contact your representative by e-mail
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13 Responses to Addressing concerns of Senator Liz Krueger and others who oppose the legalization of MMA
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STALK ME
In response to point 4 – The only “long term” careers are those had by the good fighters!
The average run of an MMA career is really pretty short by comparison to say, George Foreman or Evander Holyfield.
I hate to say this…it seems like folks who oppose this sport aren’t very educated in it. I don’t want to offend anyone but many opposing arguments come from people who seem like they know notning about the sport except what they watched in 1997. Not only that but the “facts” that those who oppose state are not even based on anything valid. Many of those who oppose are working in our government and they make decisions on unfounded ideas. This is what runs our state. You’re kidding, right? Now it seems like legalizing it would mean those who oppose would have to change their minds and I guess that can’t happen. MMA promotes domestic violence…who would say such a dumda** thing as that especially with no basis? Oh yeah, I know who…Assemblyman Bob Reilly.
Folks if you are going to oppose the sport at least have some solid evidence about your argument. Let’s see…I can watch it home…I can go to my local bar…I can go to my friends house…I can learn how to become a fighter…all in NY. Also, the current Lightheavyweight champion is a New Yorker and most of the best fighters are collegiate (meaning they went to college) wrestlers. And in order to watch it live I have to go to New Jersey. Really folks? Let’s get our act together and soon. We are now a state that is laughed at. Imagine, NY being one of only 3 states to not legalize a sport we can make sure is safe for its participants.
Kevin, to suggest that anyone opposed to MMA is simply uneducated is an ad hominem arguement. It is a violant, brutal sport without any redeeming qualities. I don’t consider boxing any better. We are legalizing people punishing each other, that is not a sign of civilized behavior.
We are sentencing boxers and MMA fighters to brain damage and other injuries for our own entertainment. Just to entertain us. What does that say about us as a society, if not yoruself as an individual. If someone wants to go up to a brick wall and bang their head against it, more power to them, just don’t ask the rest of us to make it into a “profession.”
So, we’re being laughed at for not having MMA in NYS? Well, if everyone else is a barbarian laughing at us for being civilized, count me in as a civized human being.
I’m not without appreciation for the fine art of self-defense. I’ve studied two styles of Kung Fu over the years (wing chun and white dragaon), I understand the thrill of engaging an opponent with the full physicality of your being. But that situation, in a training hall, is light years away from paying two poor slobs to hit each other until they are bruised, bloody, and broken.
Your arguement essentially boils down to one thing…everyone else can do it, so NYS should as well. Such an arguement is either naive and jejune or simply devoid of any moral base. We can use the same faulty logic to legalize prostitution, heroin and meth, and any number of vices.
You want the opposition to come up with evidence to support their position, certainly that is a fair request. However, before you enter into a public debate I suggest you actually come up with an arguement that is not based in the dubious moral proposition that MMA is ok because everyone else is doing it.
Also, suggesting that we want to emulate New Jersey certainly didn’t help make your point either…
I hear you Jango but I didn’t say that folks who oppose MMA are simply uneducated…what I said was they were uneducated about the sport and I am taking that from the arguments they present. They are pretty baseless (the arguments, not the people).
As far as your brain damage argument, boxing has been around long enough to see that sports like football and hockey actually cause a great deal of concussions that lead to far greater brain damage. In those sports when someone suffers a head injury they go back into play. In the UFC when a fighter suffers an injury like that or something else that could ruin their career they are put on a medical suspension and can only get back to training (forget about fighting) with medical clearance. Also, mma fighters actually take less hits to the head than many sports, boxing and football included.
You are entitled to your opinion about sports you choose to like and dislike, but you shouldn’t be so quick to take my opportunity to enjoy the sport away from me. Especcially when the sport is santioned and regulated.
As far as the violence of the sport is concerned…when the sport had no rules and was an ultraviolent looking sport people were not flocking to it because they didn’t like it. It didn’t take off until it was redisigned with all the rules it has today. So society didn’t like the ultra-violence of it. Violence is not entertaining but observing two athletes compete for position is. Oh wait, hockey has just senseless violence, doesn’t it?
While your comparisons are quite dramatic I think you have gone over the top. While you and I could go out and hit our heads against a brick wall as a profession (doesn’t take much training for that) we couldn’t compete in mma successfully. I’m just guessing that about you because you called kung fu a “fine art of self-defense.” While it is an art you’d have a better shot at self-defense with krav maga (which is taught in NY). Also, mma has kung fu fighters in it as well.
Also, mma doesn’t pay “two poor slobs to hit each other until they are bruised, bloody, and broken.” This is what I mean when I say those who oppose are not well educated in the sport. Fighters can win by submission, decision, or knockout (which includes referee stoppage). And yes, the referees step in to make sure fighters do not sustain life threatening damage.
My argument doesn’t boil down to the fact that every state is doing it (come on now)and I don’t compare it to legalizing prostitution, heroin, meth or any other vices. That would not only be faulty logic but stupid logic (especcially with heroin and meth). When people start asking for legalization on those “vices” then we can address those one at a time. Right now we are talking about mma which is not a “vice” but a sport.
Any argument that I could present as far as being in favor of the legalization of mma is concerned has been covered in this article as well as countless others. On the other hand, those who oppose have been presenting arguments that are based solely on some sort of personal opinion.
Read the article again. It is choke full of information. Your concerns may have caused you to miss some important points. Also try watching a series or two on the training and the backgrounds of the fighters. You’ll see that it’s not what you make it out to be. It is actually a great time for everyone and being someone who has gone to several events I can tell you that the UFC puts on the most fan friendly events I have ever experienced. All the talent under their contract is instructed to make sure they realize it’s the fans who make the sport and I have run into the athletes inside and outside of events and they truly treat the fans like they are their bread and butter.
Last point…I can study and have competitions with wrestling, boxing, karate, grappling, muay thai, etc in NY as solo events but once I put it into one umbrella as mma and mix those styles together the event can’t take place. Really?
And speaking of ad hominems…anyone laughing at us wouldn’t be considered a “barbarian”.
Kev, you’re right about me, I’m uneducated in MMA. It seems to me that most sports are trying to get away from violence and violent hits to the head. Studies on concussions/hits to the head as in the TU recently, rule changes, sitting out games etc etc etc…
you refernece to hockey is exactly what I’m talking about. Hockey is a sport that has violence, where as MMA is violence that may (?) contain some sport, or not. Rules and actions are being taken in hockey to deter/punish/contain the violence. Not to be confused with
hitting or checking.
I guess if there’s enough interest or money involved the “government”
will pass it… then see if it’s supported, long term.
I guess the bottom line is this…for those who don’t like the sport just don’t go watch it and don’t attend the events; for those that do like the sport…well hopefully our opportunity to watch it and attend events will be granted in NY. Considering the fact we haven’t seen how mma has promoted violence I can never figure out what the angle of that argument is (and please, don’t say it’s because they strike each other).
If the former Cavallo’s bouncer (a restaurant/bar in New Hartford, NY), can score a few takedown’s, he can win this fight. Quentin gassed in round 3 v. both Rashad and Lyoto. Hammill has a solid chin, he just better hope he doesn’t need to use it too often. If Matt can “counter-shoot” for takedown’s, he’ll dictate the fight. If Quentin tires, Matt will double leg him easily. Question is with Quentin, can you avoid getting your head taken off before he tires. Bob Sapp’esque.
@Jango Davis: If only we could use your fancy words for public welfare. “Brutal sport without any redeeming qualities” to quote you. It’s pretty brutal paying taxes without anything to show for it also. What “redeeming qualities” do I receive by paying school tax of $1,500 per year in this State for kids that have no morals or common decency???? Uneducated youth, etc…..(sorry, I’m bringing this to a more social issue so I’ll cease).
You’r worried about MMA. Worry about how probably 3% of high school kids in this State could tell you who the Vice President is.
u2-To suggest that my logic is faulty because I don’t discuss school taxes or the quality of our educational system in the comments section of a blog about MMA is bizarre to the point of being a non sequitur.
Sorry to use so many big words though, next time I’ll keep my words all to one syllable and you promise to stay on topic, ok?
Jango – You’re no longer allowed to pick people out for ad hominem attacks after that last comment.
Matt looked terrible. The most disappointing thing was, if this fight went three rounds, I thought Matt would have the total cardio advantage. Didn’t happen. I think Matt needs to dump Duff and join one of the MMA top teams. In the definition of irony, Rogan actually stated during one of the early fights, “talent only takes you so far”. You need to be on a great team to compete at the top level. I feel horrible for Matt, as he looked so bad on his biggest stage. Tonight hurts worse than the worst MMA decision ever, when Bisping was “handed” his win over Matt in England.
P.S. Does Dana give a bonus for upset of the night? How about Story outpointing American Top Team’s toughest fighter! Well earned decision. Took major abuse in round 3, but definately won that fight.
u2 – I actually missed last night despite my best efforts. From what I read, though, went down almost exactly as I expected it to, sans Rampage actually finishing the thing at some point. I was a bit perplexed by some that said Hamill had the advantage in wrestling, as if Jackson himself didn’t have a wrestling background and/or was ever susceptible to takedowns. Not to mention the size advantage (Jackson’s on the larger end of 205 and Hamill used to compete and probably should still be competing at 185).
I was floored when I read about Tim Story. Happy, but floored. And while it’s not nearly as big of an upset, I was surprised to see Torres lost to Johnson. Shame because I really like Torres and was looking forward to a Faber/Torres fight down the line.