Kevin Marshall's America
The Vulture summed up the stuff about Tosh in a similar manner as I did, but (again) much more effectively:
First, let’s get a few quick things out of the way: (1) This is totally in keeping with Daniel Tosh’s humor and style. He’s a lousy Reddit thread come to life, which is why he is so popular! (Just ask Jeff Dunham.) (2) Don’t heckle comedians, no matter how offensive and crappy you think their material is. (3) There’s no such thing as off-limits in comedy, and comedians are always — always — entitled to make jokes about whatever they want. But “entitled to” and “obligated to” are not the same thing, and comedy is not immune to criticism.
The emphasis is mine, because those were my two primary points when I spilled digital ink over it on Tuesday. Unfortunately, because of the sensitive nature of the subject, some I talked to after the fact took what I said to mean that I make jokes about the act of rape itself, I think they’re great, I think that making jokes about rape is just swell, and/or I think it’s okay to do it at all.
But I never would and I don’t and I don’t and I don’t. To anyone else who thinks otherwise, read it again. Also come out to my shows because that ain’t my shit at all. I don’t know what else I can say to make it clearer: I don’t think they’re cool, if one’s ever been funny I certainly don’t remember it, and taboo subjects/tragedies without context aren’t jokes. Often they’re just incitement or provocation, and that alone does not constitute comedy.
Also, we need to take into consideration (and not shout down those who bring it up) the fact that this is just some random person on the internet giving her take on what went down. We probably shouldn’t take it as gospel, especially considering that Tosh and the club’s owners specifically said it didn’t go down at all like she said. And too often overlooked, even by myself at first, is that this is actually all secondhand anyway; the person posting it on her Tumblr is actually relaying it from her friend, who was the one who shouted out during the performance.
I’ve seen these points brought up in more than one forum, and invariably someone compared it to blaming a rape on the victim. To which I can only say that equivocating this incident with an actual rape isn’t all that much better than telling “jokes” about rape, and for God’s sake, let’s keep this in its proper context.
Speaking of which, in the follow-up post the author of the Tumblr writes:
My friend (who wishes to remain anonymous) is very surprised to have gotten any form of an apology and doesn’t wish to press any further charges against Daniel Tosh.
“Doesn’t wish to press any further charges?” Oh, c’mon.
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5 Responses to More on the the Controversy -or- More TOSHtroversy -or- Tosh Point No Mas!
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STALK ME
I’m a little confused. Does this woman do nothing but protest South Park? Family Guy? Sometimes whole episodes of those are just one long rape joke and those are on national TV.
“comedians are always — always — entitled to make jokes about whatever they want”
“Don’t heckle comedians, no matter how offensive and crappy you think their material is”
I CAN ACCEPT 2 OR 3, BUT NOT BOTH. Gives the comedian way too much power in the relationship.
Firstly, you took that first one out of the context. There’s an important qualifier after it.
How you criticize is the important thing.
Categorizing it as a power struggle isn’t the right way to look at it. As an audience member, you are not ceding power, you’re ceding the stage and the microphone. Some would argue that’s the same thing, but it’s not, because your attendance and continued presence as a member of the audience is voluntary. That’s audience, from the Latin audientia, meaning hearing/to hear/to listen. As an audience member, you are not an active participant. A good comedian gives you the illusion of participation and conversation even though it’s only going one way. That’s part of the craft.
Those that believe they are or should be a literal, active participant in any way, shape, or form are the worst type of audience member. Comedy shows, like lectures or readings or spoken word performances or poetry, are not debates or blog posts. Most hecklers think they’re “helping” and/or “part of the show.” They are in the minority in this thinking and are wrong, always.
Dude, I would not use the whole “Audientia – It’s Latin, it’s Roman!” as an argument against heckling.
I’d call “if the dude sucks he’s actually gets killed – live and on stage!” pretty extreme heckling. :-p
People live onstage in Elizabethan times got things whipped at their heads when they sucked. So screaming “You suck!”? Pretty tame.
I’d suggest if you can’t handle the occasional heckling then maybe you shouldn’t be a comedian.
People also used to go watch executions for entertainment and shit into holes in the ground, so let’s not go there for context.
I can handle myself in a fistfight, too, but that doesn’t mean it’s okay for a person to occasionally attack me.
It’s a matter of etiquette. Heckling happens, that doesn’t make it and especially doing it okay. There’s a reason not everyone does it, it doesn’t happen at every show, and why when it does it’s isolated: because it’s a dick thing to do.